"In Rem" ... what is it?

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"In Rem" ... what is it?

iamsomedude
Administrator

I have seen this phrase "in rem" tossed out in people writings and I have a question …

what EXACTLY is meant by the phrase "in rem" ??
~ Boris

We are called to be architects of the future, not its victims;
Resistance is futile.

If you think you can, you are correct.
If you think you can't, you are correct.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar

Over the years you have restated the concept over & over, and have also refined it...

The latest version is the intangible right to receive Honest services as a Right to receive tangible goods.

It previously was also known as The Contract Under Seal... with all that that implies...

Yet even before that glorious light, we received the blueprint of the Lieber Code, that all these things are according to the rules of Usufruct...

Therefore I humbly state the imperative, that we must remember what Usufruct & the Usufructuary of the contract under seal is; as Sacred, secular  & civic law, designed to compliment each as a whole.

I know not what others have meant by it, I give room for them to answer for themselves; I understand it as that intangible right of expectancy that contains/produces that tangible fulfillment of itself. Faith in action beyond just the words spoken or haphazardly written; there must be a qualified giver and receiver on both sides/ends, its the honor in its exchange that energizes the agreement committed or folded/defrauded in the midst.

We must all remember that our duty/part is to be done in the light that we have...God determines the results.

Just because we ask for something, does not in anyway prove that we didn't ask it amiss...God in His promise to His own will not suffer the destruction of the same...the world to come is the one Promised as perfect and without sin; be patient.

Be Patient.




Maritime|_Law_Teacher.Maritime|_Law_Teacher 
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

iamsomedude
Administrator


it appears there is a miscomprehension … this is a serious question.

What is meant by "in rem"?

Because, how does "in rem" come into existence?


~ Boris

We are called to be architects of the future, not its victims;
Resistance is futile.

If you think you can, you are correct.
If you think you can't, you are correct.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Jo King
What is meant by "in rem"?

Because, how does "in rem" come into existence?

An action in rem is directed towards a ship rather than against a person.  An action in rem is directed against the ship itself to satisfy the claim of the plaintiff out of the cargo. The ship is for this purpose treated as a person. Such an action may constitute an inducement to the owner to submit to the jurisdiction of the court, thereby making himself liable to be proceeded against by the plaintiff in personam.     It is mandatory in  an action in rem that the ship be within jurisdiction at the time the proceedings are started.   The arrest of a particular ship is secured by the plaintiff. He does not sue the owner directly and by name; but the owner or any one interested in the proceedings may appear and defend.  So in rem proceedings appear to come into existence when a plaintiff makes a claim against a vessel.  After one appears and says hey that's my ship then it switches to the person [NAME] otherwise if no one appears its an abandon ship, which is not uncommon,  so the Plaintiff takes the whole thing, ship and cargo and they may never had a valid claim.     Heck,  I can't go 2 days without running into a ship with no body on it, its just that you gotta fight off all the other pirates if you want to capture one.
Take the road less traveled
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Jack Mehoff
how does a right arise against a ship?

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Jo King [via UNDERGROUND CANTINA]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is meant by "in rem"?
>
> Because, how does "in rem" come into existence?
>
> An action in rem is directed towards a ship rather than against a person.
> An action in rem is directed against the ship itself to satisfy the claim of
> the plaintiff out of the cargo. The ship is for this purpose treated as a
> person. Such an action may constitute an inducement to the owner to submit
> to the jurisdiction of the court, thereby making himself liable to be
> proceeded against by the plaintiff in personam.     It is mandatory in  an
> action in rem that the ship be within jurisdiction at the time the
> proceedings are started.   The arrest of a particular ship is secured by the
> plaintiff. He does not sue the owner directly and by name; but the owner or
> any one interested in the proceedings may appear and defend.  So in rem
> proceedings appear to come into existence when a plaintiff makes a claim
> against a vessel.  After one appears and says hey that's my ship then it
> switches to the person [NAME] otherwise if no one appears its an abandon
> ship, which is not uncommon,  so the Plaintiff takes the whole thing, ship
> and cargo and they may never had a valid claim.     Heck,  I can't go 2 days
> without running into a ship with no body on it, its just that you gotta
> fight off all the other pirates if you want to capture one.
> Take the road less traveled
>
>
> ________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://underground-cantina.83190.x6.nabble.com/In-Rem-what-is-it-tp2900p2907.html
> To start a new topic under UNDERGROUND CANTINA, email
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from UNDERGROUND CANTINA, click here.
> NAML
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
In reply to this post by iamsomedude
 It is at creation; it is at birth, that 'in rem' is formed into existence, as both a natural  fact and a legal operative fact exercised by a pure claim of right.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Jack Mehoff
how does the right arise? what "triggers" ?

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Orionstar [via UNDERGROUND CANTINA]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>  It is at creation; it is at birth, that 'in rem' is formed into existence,
> as both a natural  fact and a legal operative fact exercised by a pure claim
> of right.
>
> ________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://underground-cantina.83190.x6.nabble.com/In-Rem-what-is-it-tp2900p2910.html
> To start a new topic under UNDERGROUND CANTINA, email
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from UNDERGROUND CANTINA, click here.
> NAML
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Redlightning
wow u guys....in rem means NO SPECIFIC PERSON as in a ship aka office aka vessel aka instrument aka organization aka STATE OF PERSON aka feud

in personam means my   SPECIFIC PERSON ....not someone elses person that was established by an executive branch agency of a STATE


On 8/13/2018 9:23 PM, Jack Mehoff [via UNDERGROUND CANTINA] wrote:
how does the right arise? what "triggers" ?

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Orionstar [via UNDERGROUND CANTINA]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>  It is at creation; it is at birth, that 'in rem' is formed into existence,
> as both a natural  fact and a legal operative fact exercised by a pure claim
> of right.
>
> ________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://underground-cantina.83190.x6.nabble.com/In-Rem-what-is-it-tp2900p2910.html
> To start a new topic under UNDERGROUND CANTINA, email
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from UNDERGROUND CANTINA, click here.
> NAML



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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
In reply to this post by iamsomedude
The right exists/rises/triggers  where the law promises legal remedies concerning it.

''Correspondent'' rights in rem, is the inclusive concept involving persons/un-uttered ships governed by plural jurisdictions.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
I will however at this time yield to Boris, in order  to see that which he seeks for us to properly understand...
non
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

non
What is the underlying structure ?

I thank Robert Fritz for the concept of changing an underlying structure in order to effect change e.g. like a river, change the river bed, and the river alters course.

Anyhow back to my question of what is the underlying structure, if we be talking about a label such as "in rem" what is the source of that term ?  A man-made construct.

Thanks for bringing up the question, which I ponder throughout the day, and come back with what I come back with.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

iamsomedude
Administrator
In reply to this post by Orionstar

and what creates "the law" ?
~ Boris

We are called to be architects of the future, not its victims;
Resistance is futile.

If you think you can, you are correct.
If you think you can't, you are correct.
non
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

non
the contract

edit :merci beaucoup, tyvm, for aiding me see what the underlying structure is



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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Jack Mehoff

all "in rem" rights arise from simple contract. 

Therefore, the "proof of claim" sought is that the CR(tm) did not extinguish the original contract in favor of the CR(tm) contract where the "in rem" rights are defined.

Most court cases are using the "Statute" to formulate the contract: the result of the violation of the statute, but EXACTLY what legal duty do you have to not violate as such? 

In other words, maybe people should be asking the court to DEFINE what one's legal duty?

After all, one does have a good faith belief one has no legal duty, correct? 🤔

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:09 AM, non [via UNDERGROUND CANTINA] <[hidden email]> wrote:
the contract




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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
In reply to this post by iamsomedude

The creators of such laws/laws derive by the protocols/mindset/agenda of lawgivers whether Public or Private, as well as all Domains/jurisdictions in which they are bound/limited. yes?
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
In reply to this post by iamsomedude

Perhaps one would also be wise to ask; of which law does/should one Refer/Prefer to seek/yield to/Honor; a lesser or The Greater?

It then becomes necessary to properly Understand in which Law/Form we are most Vested; & thereby most secure. Yes?
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
In reply to this post by iamsomedude
Did a little digging to help shape my thoughts(blacks law 6th)

"In rem"
A term used to designate proceedings  or actions instituted against the thing, in contradistinction to personal actions, which are said to be in personam...although encompassing actions brought against a person in which the essential purpose of such suit is to determine title to or affect interests in a specific property located within territory over which the court has jurisdiction... a proceeding"in rem" is one which is taken directly against  property or the one which is brought to enforce a right in the thing itself.

Seemingly determining the identification of both the Indemnitee and that of the Indemnitor by contract...as touching the elements of indemnification: Contribution, Hold harmless agreement; Indemnity, Reparations, Restitution; Subrogation.

Res

By "Res", according  to modern civilians, is meant everything that may form an object  of rights, in opposition  to "persona", which is regarded  as a subject of rights. "Res", therefore, in its general meaning, comprises actions of all kinds; while in its restricted sense it comprehends  every object of right, except actions. This has reference to the fundamental  division of the Institutes, that all law relates either to persons, to things, or to actions. Res is everything  that may form an object of rights and includes object, subject-matter or status.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

iamsomedude
Administrator
I think the point has been missed … I was not looking for the definition.

Hell, I could have done that myself.

I have all the same reference material quoted in this post by posters.



I was looking for WHAT is "in rem" and how does "in rem" arise and why is it one does not have "standing" when one enters the matter … in other words, COMPREHENSION.

It appears "in rem" is "property rights under simple contract" …

For example: The violation of that Statute, the thing, is nothing more than a trespass against a "property right," and being used to formulate the contract in court … the Statute therefore is the source of the "PROPERTY INTEREST" and what rights do you have in the Statute (the thing)?

Therefore, when one accepts the "trespass" for its value and returns it for the same upon proof of claim, when there is no answer, there is no further "in rem" value, for there is no longer a "trespass against a property right" ….

HOWEVER, if the action continues absent proof of claim, then the "property right in question" or "in rem" is no longer the "trespass against the Statute" it is now about the "intangible right to receive honest services" of which is now a Trespass against a right guaranteed by the United States and of which ALL have a "property interest" for it is codification of the "golden rule" of which ALL are bound to honor and obey for each one of us has a DUTY to each other under the Law to "love thy neighbor as thy self" in fulfillment of the Law.

To deny this intangible right is akin to a Samsung retail-service center refusing to honor a Samsung guarantee by denying to perform the warranty work or return. The "in rem" right is this case it the right to receive honest services from the retail-service center for honor of the guarantee issued by Samsung to service the defective product. The "warranty" is the "memorial of the duty" to honor this "intangible property right" owed to the receipt holder as a policy/duty of the Company..

In the same vein, the Oath of Office these guys take is a "quid pro quo" contract to "provide honest services" in the form of upholding and defending the Constitution and the law made in support thereto; not to hold "property rights in favor of supporting the fundamental purpose of government (ie: Declaration of Independence)" hostage in favor of "property rights that support profit and gain while occupying a position of Trust" (read Lieber Code Articles 40-47) .. the OATH is the memorial of the duty to honor this intangible right guaranteed to the people as a policy/duty of the office by the office-holder and a performance duty owed to the government.


See where I am going with this? The definitions, while great and all take a back seat to the comprehension of the same.

~ Boris

We are called to be architects of the future, not its victims;
Resistance is futile.

If you think you can, you are correct.
If you think you can't, you are correct.
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Jo King

One would get the idea now that actions (physical) can be consideration for a contract.  As we heard, the man spoke [consideration] to the court and gave his plea, but asked for nothing in return. A judge issuing an order as consideration for a new contract and recently learned that forbearance is consideration.  Which is to say, I will forbear my suit against you if you try to act better, however the rest of the contracts says if you don't, I discontinue my forbearance and proceed.    If Claimant/Plaintiff fails to provide proof of claim you could make a forbearance contract similar to that.

Take the road less traveled
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Re: "In Rem" ... what is it?

Orionstar
In reply to this post by iamsomedude
Understood, the power is not in the ability to quote or recite, but in the clear simplistic view held by the OUGHT of the Idea/ideals of the promised memorialized Liberty.

A power that must be ever present with us all. I thank you for your patience and tutelage...sometimes I get blocked and need to see the greater beauty within by the hand & aid of another sculpturor. Very nice indeed, thanks!
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